Set up riddle.

[saxophonias]

Guys i would like your opinion on a dilemma i got with the suspension set up of my car.
As you know i use 14 inch iightweight wheels (Koseis k1 racing) which weigh only 4.1 kg each. It was a purpose purchase knowing the benefits of low unsprung weight on the vehicle's speed and turning. The second step was to move from 185/60/14 to 55/14 due to the more sporty tyres existing in this size, and the shorter final drive. So far so good. Still there are some drawbacks here that make my life miserable in everyday driving. Firstly the lightweight wheels in combination with the shorter tyre profile mess with the steering weight which is something i hate. I dislike having a super light steering Secondly the car has dropped even more giving me nightmares in daily driving. I hit almost everything which outcrops from the road..
On the other hand i could increase the height of the car since i have coilovers, but the problem here is that Buddy Club are too low on their upper lever so i can't do a lot here. I had this problem with the rear of the car so i had to manufacture some extra harder taller bushings going in the top mount so i dealt with that problem this way. I am ready to do the same with the front. Still the look of the car would worsen but i am ready to do this sacrifice. To make the handling a bit better i was thinking of buying some spacers as koseis don't have a lot of offset. ET 42 i think. I would like to have it around 35 which is the upper limit.
A second way around it, would be to put some 185/60/14 on, so the height would be a bit more but on this size i can't find ultra high performance tyres. At least i can't find in Greece in decent price. I wish something like r1r, or z212 or some potenzas.
I wouldn't want to have toyos 888 for daily driving.

Enlighten me guys!

[BETEK]

hmm mm...........
Difficult issue you mention here
I am considering almost the same about the light steering wheel feedback.
One good step closer to have better feedback is swapping vti ek4 steering rack.
Then a dual valve pump.
And will help the wide tires also a little bit.
With aligning can you see any improvement or with some caster-camber kit.
I think that 0 camber will give better feedback, a heavier feeling at steering wheel and better braking distances

[RenÉK]

14" wheels are very tiny.
Stock wheels have high tires around them to compensate the small wheels but thats not sporty.
I dont know if u use the car on tracks or only the public roads.
I would get some bigger wheels for street use and only fix the 14" weels when I'm going for a ride such as track/circuit.
The ET of 42 is good IMO, I would't want spacers between my wheels because of the risk for the strength of the studs.
space only what is nessesary and only as a last resort.

I would buy a bigger set wheels and keep te light wheels for other then
daily use.

[Dodo Bizar]

Which toe settings do you have now? I have ET35 for years now... 9 years. But yes, EJ9's are light steering cars anyway. Lowering the car lowers caster... and that is what you want back probably? Let me guess, on a straight line, the steering wheel does not come back as fast as an OEM car? If not, forget the caster part.

But if the above holds and if you don't want to sacrifice the looks despite the low-riding issues. Try adjusting the caster with adjustable upper control arms in the front to OEM spec. Might do the trick.

And about toe. I drive with enormous toe-in, making it feather light. I had toe-out once and it was terrible to drive, but the steering actually did give me more feedback at that time. So... less toe-in might be worth a try? Bit of a long shot and performance wise I would not recommend it.

[hondaNickx]

I would put some 15" wheels on there ,14" is really tiny and isn't used much.Your wheels may only weigh 4kg but your higher tires way more then that.For example Rota slipstreams in 15 x 6.5" only weigh 5.7kg .
Light steering could also be from the small 14" tires ,with narrow tire.

I know all EK civic's have 1° 40' of caster stock ( which is almost nothing compared to other brands who run 6° - 9° of caster.)I don't know if EJ9's have less caster then EK's but my EJ9 has only 1° 20' of caster.And that is on the lowest setting of my OMI coilovers.So what Dodo is telling here could be very true.Doesn't extended lower ball joints help in this as well ?

[saxophonias]

i will have to see my caster settings again. Guys lightweight 14inch wheels don't compare to 15inch acceleration wise. There is tremendous difference in feeling which i don't want to sacrifice. Nick i have 55-14 profile which is even lighter than 60-14 stock. S-drives are lightweight tyres too. I haven't increase the height still as i am very busy these days. It won't be too much anyway, just 2-3 cm.

[hondaNickx]

Acceleration has more to do with the diameter of your wheels changing then with unsprung weight .I don't think your unsprung weight is much less then a regular 15 tire with low profile tire.Not even to mention you get a lot of tire roll from that high 55 series tire.

185/55/14" has a low circumfence of 175.65cm.
195/45/15" has a circumfence of 174.83 cm which is 0.47% less then your 14" wheels.

Stock EJ9 has 175/60/14 afaik and that is a Circumfence of 177.69cm.
That's a 1.15% difference ,so when you're driving 120km/h you're actually driving at 118km/h

A 185/55/14 semi slick tire(kumho v700) weighs 8kg.
My old cheap Marangoni zeta linea tires 195/50/15 weigh 7.3kg.
My current kumho ECSTA KU15 195/50/15 tire weigh 8.0kg.


My old rota slipstreams in 15 x 6.5" weigh 5.7kg.
My current Lenso D01 15 x 7" wheels weigh 6.6kg.

There are 15 x 6.5" wheels around that also weigh 4kg even the regamasters weigh less then that 3.8kg.

Sell the 14" wheels and get 15 x 6.5" lightweight wheels with low profile tires. 195/45/15 for example .You get waayy less tire roll day and night difference from a 185/55 tire and you can keep the unsprung weight loss.
185/55/ is what i use as a winter tire...And you also got a lot more choice in tires if you went with 195/50/15.

My old 15" rota slipstream setup weighs 13kg your 14" setup weighs about 12.1kg that's a 900gram difference .If you would use low profile tires you get actually less weight then your current 14" setup.

[saxophonias]

Acceleration has more to do with the diameter of your wheels changing then with unsprung weight .I don't think your unsprung weight is much less then a regular 15 tire with low profile tire.Not even to mention you get a lot of tire roll from that high 55 series tire.

185/55/14" has a low circumfence of 175.65cm.
195/45/15" has a circumfence of 174.83 cm which is 0.47% less then your 14" wheels.

Stock EJ9 has 175/60/14 afaik and that is a Circumfence of 177.69cm.
That's a 1.15% difference ,so when you're driving 120km/h you're actually driving at 118km/h

A 185/55/14 semi slick tire(kumho v700) weighs 8kg.
My old cheap Marangoni zeta linea tires 195/50/15 weigh 7.3kg.
My current kumho ECSTA KU15 195/50/15 tire weigh 8.0kg.


My old rota slipstreams in 15 x 6.5" weigh 5.7kg.
My current Lenso D01 15 x 7" wheels weigh 6.6kg.

There are 15 x 6.5" wheels around that also weigh 4kg even the regamasters weigh less then that 3.8kg.

Sell the 14" wheels and get 15 x 6.5" lightweight wheels with low profile tires. 195/45/15 for example .You get waayy less tire roll day and night difference from a 185/55 tire and you can keep the unsprung weight loss.
185/55/ is what i use as a winter tire...And you also got a lot more choice in tires if you went with 195/50/15.

My old 15" rota slipstream setup weighs 13kg your 14" setup weighs about 12.1kg that's a 900gram difference .If you would use low profile tires you get actually less weight then your current 14" setup.

Nick, 1998 civic ej9s in Greece came with 185/60/14 as stock so from this 185/55/14 is about 3% shorter which is good. !95/45/15 is expensive and will give an even harder ride. As for tyre roll i have no such problems. I admit that 185-60-14 were unacceptable in steering feeback and roll but now i settled this problem.
I admit that 15 seems more overall but i am a bit hesitant in spending money to make the car slower. I would like to give this amount of money in cam let's say.
Today i finally increased the ride height for about 2cms, installed stonger top mounts and did some weight balancing. I still have to tune the alignment but the ride has become less jumpy and softer and i thing the suspension works better. I also decreased the height difference between the front the and the back. Prior the car was sitting on its nose (2.5cms aprox). This set up never worked (more prone to lift of and sensitive to corner braking, while giving some understeer, strangely. I think that had to do with the weight balance which actually came more to the front axle). The height difference now is almost the same (almost 1 cm sits in front). I think the handling is better this way but i will have to do some spirited driving to be really sure.

The looks are worse but i can live with that

[hondaNickx]

Why do you keep thinking 15" makes your car slower?It's not like the devil or something Take some advise and do a little research .Look at ek9 movies on youtube from best motoring and such ,and look around what every civic is using.Most of them use 15 " with either 195/50/15 or 195/55/15 tires .Even the big name cars like spoon and such all use 15" and a lot of 195 or 205 mm wide tires.That 185 mm wide tire isn't helping you in cornering either.

[saxophonias]

exactly that man! 185 is good enough i think for 120hp or even some more power. Big wheels is a trend i think if you bear in mind that ef civics and crxs came with 14inch (while 195) and nsx with 15 inch. I have a set of spares 15bbs wheels with toyo 888 lying around, and every time i use them car feels slower than stock. I know that it is not a direct comparison with the combos you have mentioned above but it's the psychological factor too. Maybe i try some day my friends kosei k1 15inch 15x7 with 195/50/15 street tyres and measure speed. I also reckon the extra grip offered by 195 tyres in comparison to 185, but on the other hand i think that i can overcome this problem with the right tuning set up. My suspension set up has great capabilities to this.